Talk:Eon: Into the Abyss (Spring 2012)
planning Hey I miss season nine and our endless planning discussions. Here's some of that. Kinda. So we're apparently going to hell. The main thing seems to be equipment, at least that's what Alan has been telling me about. We need to make sure everyone can survive the battles, and to make sure that the party is effective in combat. As far as we know so far, the party will be me (Ashra), Leilah, Kanye, Cicero, maybe Aether (she said she's coming but I thought her player was taking a full year off, so she might just be a guest star), either Semna or Karijou's Batman expy, Nima's new character, and Rachael's new character if she stays in. I have no idea if Avi is coming back or not. So we've got three or four people who go into melee (Leilah, Kanye, Cicero, Aether?) possibly another (Batmanperson), two people we don't really know anything about (Nima & Rachael's characters -- I'm assuming Nima won't be Semna in this timeline, since they're so different, and I have no idea if Rachael would continue Eliamar or not), and between one and three characters who ... do stuff ... in the vicinity of battle ... (me, Semna, Avi). In terms of combat, anyone who fights hand to hand needs special weapons (good and possibly cold iron). Since we can't easily improve Kanye, I'm assuming he'll come equipped to handle himself. If Aether is going to be here regularly, she can change her master assassin dagger (can't she? or does she run into the "once a year" thing? Time is ... confusing these days) which would mean that of the characters we know about, only Cicero and Leilah will need their weapons improved. Apparently this costs obscene amounts of money because their weapons are already magical. I'd like to assume that any new characters will come at least mostly outfitted to do their job, since the whole "show up and get the party to invest in you before we know you're in for good" thing really sucked with Fauxdin/Vladomil/Ulfgar. (Not that I expect that to happen again, but IC Ashra will be a little more wary about jumping to spend stuff on new guys, though it's really between Cicero and Leilah.) So we do have some kind of treasure hoard from Orcas, but it was described as "a bunch of evil artifacts", which are going to be really hard to sell. I thought a Nyasan church might buy some off of us so that they could sacrifice them to their god, but they might expect it to just be a donation. There's probably a black market for that sort of thing, but we might be at war with it right now. I thought since the Eon experience system kinda allows transfer of EXP, that if that extends to in-game concerns we might be able to sacrifice the artifacts to a god for EXP, then give that EXP to an artificer so that we only had to pay the other costs for the improvement. But that is entirely dependent on the DM's discretion. Either way, Leilah and Cicero need fancy weapons, and the CTO is dead against using a temporary spell or item for it. (I thought I'd just pick up a wand of bless weapon and shoot it around before every battle, but apparently that's verboten too.) So that'll cost a good bit. And at this level I'm guessing even new characters who come in slightly below party level will have weapons with an enchantment or two on them, which will make them expensive to enchant too. The party did (when I was CFO, and I don't remember Cicero selling them) possess a set of cold iron longswords and a cold iron greatsword, but they have no other enchantments, which would make them too weak to use at this level. The people who don't rely on weapon attacks will have to overcome SR, but I'm not sure anything the party does can really help with that. (I'm sure such items exist; I'm not sure they exist in Eon, I certainly never found one.) If anyone new is a full caster they'll probably be equipped to deal with it since it's their thing. And apparently we'll also need other things to help keep the party alive. I'm assuming if AC matters, it matters in the same way as usual, so we don't need demon-specific buffs. Cicero, Leilah and I are all kind of okay as far as that goes. I don't have to stand next to the enemy, so it's okay that I'll get hit on the first strike, and I think the other two have a bit more HP than I do. Hopefully Kanye will have decent AC coming in. I don't know about the Other Mystery People. Aether has been squishy, if she's coming back for all of this season maybe we should look into ways to either make her less squishy or get her out of the way more reliably. Avi tends to stay either in his ship or out of the way entirely, if he's around. Also, he's Avi, so he can buy whatever he needs once he decides he needs it. The real problem in terms of survival seems to be resisting specific attacks. Elemental damages, and save vs. bad stuff. Leilah wants various fancy and probably banned things that would let her buff the party more without using all the spell slots she needs for battle. If there's a wand of some of the lower level buffs, I can go around keeping that up on people, but the wand's caster level will probably be a lot lower than Leilah's so it's really only useful for things that max out early. Also might be worth getting people resistance items or the like if their saves are low; not sure how expensive that'd be. A lot depends on how much money we can get out of the Orcas hoard. One thing I'm concerned about is healing. Since Leilah prefers to fight as much as possible (and with her as one of our main melee combatants, I can't argue with her utility there) the healing kinda falls to me. Unfortunately, since SRD wands don't go above 4th level (cure critical), I'm about the equivalent of a 7th or 8th level cleric tending to a 17th level party. Less so, actually, since we haven't seen a wand from the Restoration line, so I have no access to removing status effects. While a wand of Heal would give me something to do, it's probably nonexistent, down to the last few charges, and/or very, very expensive. Scrolls of Heal, which do exist, are likewise very expensive. We need a better solution to this. I thought we should send Leilah by the Caltris school to pick up someone looking for work experience who's majoring in healing/demon asskicking (a totally legit interdisciplanary major) but apparently that's technically a cohort, and no one has Leadership, plus the DM doesn't like cohorts/familiars/companions/summons unless it is Tiny Party Season. (I miss Zaph.) Maybe one of the new characters will show up with a skill set that lets them help me with Heal Bitch Duties, but if they don't (or they have something better to do in combat) then we need a better way to keep our HP up. Also, Kanye will heal differently than the rest of us. Hopefully he'll have some ability to repair himself or at least a manual like Eleven's that lets someone read out Repair Damage spells. However, I think I'm the only arcane caster who can read from books in the main party, and my highest spell level is fourth, so even with a manual I can only do the equivalent of cure critical for him as well. Which is not very efficient for a tank. I'm hoping he'll have ways to help us out with this. So ... thoughts? solutions? other problems? "in before tl;dr"s? "tl;dr"s? Chimegumi 08:38, January 9, 2012 (UTC) :Nyasa. Evil. Evil Divine. Orcus, Lord of undead. When preparing for trouble, make it double, demon and undead. Demon: DR/good, and ~ECL 14+, cold iron as well. SLA's of choice generally revolve around Fire, Mind Affecting, or things you just need to pray that SR and Fort/Will will stop. Most appropriate challenges have Unholy Aura, SR/Fort STR damage when you hit. Undead: Silver, and a wide grab-bag of other DR options that cover most of the possible range. Not to mention all the incoporeal enemies with negative levels, ability drain and paralysis options. So... :;Weapons penetrate any DR :: Transmuting, +2 equivalent weapon enchantment :;Evil incarnate :: Holy, +2 equivalent weapon enchantment :;Mind affecting :: Mindblank or save boosts/rerolls, since a low bonus is much worse that spamming rerolls :;Incoporeal Touch AC :: Varied options :;Unholy Aura :: Dispel Evil, Clr 5 :;Undead :: Consecrate, Sunlight, Sunburst, Greater Turning (with boosts) :;SR since combat flickering SR is a thing :: as per the cleric spell or better, since SR items are donkey balls. :;HP Healing :: I have some ideas... :;Ability drain :: hopefully something less wasteful than wands of Lesser Restoration. :I cannot handle this on my own, yet as with most things I have the potential to be the cheapest source of the appropriate solutions. Things that will allow me to give the party these things and also cast spells other than DPower in combat will be nice, but too complicated for a discussion here. One simple one: Hierophant + adhoc cleric casting + 2 Metamagic Rods of Chain = for 1,450 XP and 108,000 GP, my touch range buffs now affect 19 targets. GMW, MV, SR, DW, Aid, ect. I am tired of being the party band aid for everything, lets buy some items to cover some of the boring heal/resto/buff spells. The opportunity cost is killing me. :The usual party. Need a skill/stealth we can trust, a face with numbers behind it if Semna doesn't make it to the one episode, arcane utility. Oh, almost forgot, full wizard BFC. Here's hoping that Kanye live up to being the big guy. We have no full BAB fighters in the party barring Leilah with DPower, and she was disturbingly ineffective at hitting Orcus. Construct is by default as cleric, and Cicero is low level. For Leilah being a local Nyasa is unfriendly, unlike the impression I get a similar party would get on the Northern Continent. Passing through the various cities with a starting attitude of poor to neutral makes me want a easily accessible city we can base ourselves in. Any planar adventures will need to ensure that we have a safe haven for resting. No more threatened Mechanus trips. Hell might have planar traits that are more threatening than Mechanus. AlanChu 03:20, January 12, 2012 (UTC) :Kayne can definatly step up to the plate as designated Big Punchy Guy if so needed, but I've got enough class flexibility I can just about as easily fill arcane utility or stealth or just about any role with some clever application of feats and runes. I'm talking with Hobbes soon as to what my final iteration is going to be, and I'd hoped to get a couple words with the team before I lock down the final nuts and bolts. -JGerhart :Oh we can be all over that. This is going to be fun. Leilah and Ashra were the only PC's with a moderate AC, so a tank would free up Leilah to take a break for healing. Leilah was the party tank, but used only Magic Vestment, an Animated shield, Shield of Faith, and a d6 hit die. Fun, no? I'll have to ask for more AC. Cicero is a fighter|sorcerer gestalt at level 13: Spring Attack, an amped up Arcane Strike, and Ignore Light Armor ASF, mobile melee striker. Ashra is currently up in the air. Fingers crossed on Hobbs allowing Ashra to get access to Wizard spells as Wizards should, assuming Ashra's new build retains partial casting. AlanChu 07:27, January 12, 2012 (UTC) ::To clarify: Cleric is cleric, therefore able to theoretically CAP several roles. In the last two seasons, I was primary Striker, Healer, Buffer, Tank, and Controller, with the party only backing up the Striker and Healer roles. A competent character that can primary or secondary any one of these roles, whose player also knows what they are doing would be nice. Someone who can cover two roles would be great. It's a pity we don't know what Rachel/Nima/Kari are up to. ::Since we defeated CR 33 4e Orcus, tis the season for using things other than levels to increase our power. We lack arcane Buffers and Controlers, a tank that can handle their own healing ala Crusader, and a skillface who isn't half-devil (depending on her ranks and how lenient Hobbs is regarding demon/devil relationships, this might not be an issue if Semna stays on). Once those are covered, I would like to get some synergistic fifth wheels. AlanChu 19:50, January 12, 2012 (UTC) ::: Hobbs has been drawing me up as a striker with some control elements, but looking at the party, we've got a silly number of strikers and not much else. I like Eon Walker and its high AC, and I'm not sure what else it works with, but I'm going to talk to him about different ways I could go. Possibly making the time-walker thing more caster-y instead of more fighter/rogue-y ... we'll see. Control appeals to me, but most squiddy control that I know about will slide right off of monsters at this level (high-Will/mind-effecting immune, for starters) so I'd have to make sure he'll allow something feasible. Having a higher range and level of wizard spells for control/buffing/utility would be great, but might not be doable with Ashra's LA and the historical difficulty of finding any affordable spells in Eon. I will almost certainly not be a tank, that's the one thing I can rule out. (I'm ok with drawing fire away from weaker party members if my AC can take it, but not as my primary function; playing the high level version of Scarlett's build wouldn't suit me or Ashra.) I probably won't be a traditional squishy caster, either, since it doesn't suit me/him. We Shall See. :::Technically Ashra has the skills and the party role (CEO) to be the skillface, it's just that most NPCs tend to react ... poorly ... to him. His silly Int bonus means he can have ranks in pretty much whatever, and in his current incarnation he has a decent bonus to Diplomacy, not amazing but around the same as face characters have had. If the poor reactions have been mostly due to "eek mindflayer let's distrust it", that may not be so much of a problem in Hell (since they'll only distrust him as much as they distrust everyone else), but if the poor reactions are mostly due to "Chi fucks up talking because she is always scared" and/or "Disregard that, she said it", then there's not much I can do. Certainly I'll be happy when another face character shows up, but Hobbs tends to base success more on how convincing the player is rather than their roll. (insert rant about CEO-inna-box and not getting to do my job here, no one wants to read it, just mentally C&P some of Season Ten if you want it...) In terms of healing, I'll still have the UMD from Aberration, so in a pinch I can load the wand-whip with a bunch of cheap Cure wands to heal an ally at touch range without wasting Leilah's spells. That does cost a lot of money though, and is kinda inefficient as a use of party and/or my funds, waiting-for-healer-to-heal-me-fully time, and, ideally, the CEO's time. :::Anyway, that's what I'm going for. I'll tell you how things turn out once I'm back at school and have had a chance to properly bother our poor DM. Chimegumi 11:47, January 13, 2012 (UTC) pre-next season discussion Next season hasn't been announced, so I decided this can go on this season's thread. A lot of it is in reaction to the last few episodes anyway. I'll write up the FGJ at some point, I'm just not up to it yet. So that FGJ was ... weird. It almost makes more sense to me to think of it as though the last three episodes before the finale and the finale were switched, so we had stupid running around in circles for a while and then one long, protracted epic battle. Because the alternative is thinking that I/we somehow managed to miss whatever was supposed to happen. The last time that happened was Warehouse H, and EonRPG was quite upfront about the fact we didn't discover what we were supposed to (plus there was the whole weird "I am so mad at you for successfully doing exactly what I told you to, you totally failed to do things none of us ostensibly know about!" sequence-break thing which is part of why Vishnu is still a contact juggling prop.) Since we weren't told anything of the sort, and it was trying to find the season finale that got us into the stupid Bloodfoe battle, I'm going to assume that things are going roughly according to plan. Which, since nothing makes sense and everything is fucking with us, means we're approaching things wrong from the plot end. I really, deeply don't want to get so meta that I go against the DM's plans in a way that takes us off the track for the planned encounters, and makes the game less fun to run and to play. We shouldn't have been in that Disjunction encounter, period, but I still think it's more important that we at least tried for a combat encounter, even though perhaps the most prudent thing to do would've been to eschew all of them until we know what we're doing. Hopefully if we work things out over the IRL timeskip, the party can try to fix things without hosing the meta elements. As I see it, there are two big problems: We're not doing the right things, and we're not strong enough to do anything meaningful in this arena. I'm talking about the two separately, because no matter who we're supposed to fight they're going to be pretty badass. I'm signing a lot here not because there are many of me simultaneously writing this under a perfect dichotomy but because that way attributions will be clearer if people respond in the sections. I really want to hear other people's input. Maybe you're not as bored as I am over the summer. But if you are ... hi? :D Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) plotstuff So it looks like we have a giant conspiracy and/or conspiracies including roughly everyone ever in some capacity. That civilian who jumped onto the JK3 might be involved for all I know. I was starting to list everyone that's been implied to be involved and ... it's basically all plot villains. Ever. *The Gloriosas are our newest and, so far, main enemy. *They are linked through letters and collusion to Alphabet **Who presumably has Isona Vandris with him *Alphabet appears to have some role with the Black Hand Corporation, whose ships we've seen fighting on the Gloriosas' behalf (we think? or at least, trying to hose us?) *The Black Hand trained Pyotar Umarov *Who was a Savior with Xoth, Brezcar, and Marcus Fairlan (Fairlan seemed to have more direct economic connections to this conspiracy maybe see also Warehouse H) *Xoth is working with Grax is working with Xenteroth, who likes to fuck with us (well, me) and with the Inquisition, but it's not clear which side Team Mechanus is really on. **Xenteroth enjoys fucking us over, but his greater actions suggest anti-apocalypse. And then there's that army. *I think the Scarlet Brotherhood are involved too because they usually are. Fuckers. There is a real connection I'm just not remembering it. They were on the Sirius doing weird shit and I think that's relevant somehow? Also they might be sufficiently radical ToP to think the Awakening is rad. *Tyro and Poetry knew about Orcus's death very fast, but that could just mean they were blasting off at the speed of light again. Giant Inconsistencies Stuff we haven't been looking too hard at, but we should've. *If this is really the end of the world, this should be going way higher up the chain than it is. We've got governments sending us off on fetch quests with the promise of help. We are not the strongest people in the world, not anywhere near it -- think about it, if we were, the Gloriosas would've taken over everything by now because their resources and power level far outstrip ours. So where are the real power players? We're preventing the apocalypse! Either there's a much harder aspect of this that all of them are up to and they decided to be stingy with information, or they're sending us on a wild goose chase and the real problem is something else entirely. *Nesferati act more like devils than demons. This was more Leilah and Kanye's thing so they can summarize their own argument. **Also, "Nesferati" anagrams to "Ne res fiat" in what I'm pretty sure is Celestial (it's a sentence that feels like it's made of light words, but it means something along the lines of "Let the thing not happen/be made/be done" or, less plausibly, "Let him/her/it not do/make the things") *So why are the enemies so fucking competent anyway? They always lie in wait for us, even their ship-guarding mooks were ready with a fucking Disjunction, they've already outstripped our "state of the art near-unique" ship ... the individual Gloriosas themselves get bullshit from the demons they're in bed with, but is that the explanation for all their resources, too? **And why the weird holes? Brother Jacob was just foolish and poorly placed. How'd he hoodwink a whole group of clerics, are none of them above level five? *"Flee the moon" doesn't make any sense as something to call our enemies. They're messing with it, and they fled with a large chunk of the moon, but it's a bit of a stretch to pretend they're afraid of something they're manipulating for their own goals. **Moon god = Correlon Larethian (right?) = Mechanus touched temple = Xenteroth and his army; "flee the moon" = "opposed to Xenteroth"? Would've had to be started by ... Xoth, Grax or alt!Ashra, pretty much. Unlikely in general. But it's the best I can do. *So the creatures of the abyss fight for the multiverse every thousand years (source: Ashra's revelation and I think we heard it elsewhere too), and they're trying to start it early (source: party conjecture). **When did they last pull this shit? If this actually is roughly the appointed time, then that'd make the Deep Tower have been founded roughly 1000 years ago (last time)! This corroberates some of Ashra's more batshit theories, so let's disregard it for now. ;) ***If this isn't the appointed time, what was happening 1000 years before the right time? We don't hear about GIANT DEMON WARS in the standard Eon histories. Ashra and Leilah can KHistory-party on it later, but I definitely don't remember this coming up. ***If they're only trying shit a matter of ~3-4 decades early, that's the Ravinia/Eldergrin nuke incident. OHAI NEW RAVINIANS ***Why are they pulling all this shit on the Prime? We don't seem to be super important, as planes go. The Dimension Die has proved there are a lot of Prime-like planes out there -- why go to so much trouble to isolate the Prime? Total planar isolation seemed more likely than obliteration of all other planes ... but if obliteration is their goal, why save a (tormented, doomed, shit to rule over) version of this plane? **''Who are they fighting for it?'' Didn't seem like they had a proper opponent until we came along. Are they fighting Xenteroth? Is he protecting the Prime despite being a total asshole, like he's secretly the Tony Stark of ascendant alhoons? Seriously, who's their opponent? We haven't been getting the kind of help from the heavens that we'd expect if they were a proper opponent to the demons. Are they fighting the devils? All we've seen so far is demons acting like devils ... Anyway, who are the actual figures in this power struggle? ***Nerull? ****He sure makes a lot of deals. And the function of the Lantern seems relevant here. The intended function, the one that doesn't work: collapsing the other planes into the Hells. What's Nerull doing with that shit anyway? Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) There are seven swords. This is apparently the big plot reveal. Ashra doesn't care until it's integrated into the rest of the plot because, if nothing else, it sounds like a path to more wild goose chases and those have not been going well. But it's the Plot Point so it bears mentioning. *One sword is in Ashra's possession. That one was Haveo's. *One more was broken in The Dark Tower. I think that was when we revisited it, not in Ashra's memories, but I can't be sure. *The other five are AFAWK unknown **Pyotar had a candle puzzle and a summon-style pit, but I don't believe the party saw an altar of filth or an obsidian blade. **One might be "the original" obsidian sword used by Pelor to immortalize his servant, and thus broken in that process. If so it's probably a secret relic. *We have a similar dagger but we think it's not one of the seven. Still in Category: Fun Toys Rostan May Not Touch, though. Discordian vs. Harmonian shenanigans What we know: *The Story: Eldergrin and Ravinia were both supposedly ancient cities with super-high magic/tech and generally awesome at everything. The Discordians (Eldergrin) ruled some of the NC and the Harmonians (Ravinia) ruled much of the NC and SC. This isn't explicitly worked into history as we know it, probably because most of the books detailing this stuff are secret, so we have to guess how it all fits. What we do know is that in 480 SA the Harmonians nuked the Discordians (technically, teleported a Frozen Fate into their capitol, then activated it) and disappeared in shame because it worked, because clearly someone didn't think something through here. Then Heckle wrote about it and everyone started arguing if it's true. Also Xenteroth showed up and made the ruins of Eldergrin his base for a while, then ditched them again. *Both Eldergrin and Ravinia are mythical places. We know Eldergrin is real -- at least, the ruins of it are -- because the party has been there. We suspect Ravinia is real due to repeated references to it up to and including Ganth's serious discussion of sending the party there. *Eldergrin is pretty messed up. Most of the functional stuff there seemed to have been installed by Xenteroth, who stored a lot of treasure there and put in a lot of traps to protect said treasure. Supposedly the Fate fallout would cause insanity after about three weeks there; the party spent two and some of us came out pretty messed up, though there were extenuating circumstances like Tyro fucking around and the Dark Lantern vomiting negative energy all over everything. **The biggest thing Xenteroth seemed to be storing in there was a silo of Fates, which "his" lich sealed away safely. (The lich was probably faking being from the time of Xenteroth, and he was wearing a symbol of Duplicitous (six fingered lightning bolt guy, but actually Tiamat). I don't remember why we decided he was lying, maybe based on Claire and/or Ethan's Sense Motive. He was on different sides the two times we played that encounter, and he sealed himself away with the Fates in the final/official version of that fight.) **Other shit stored in there included Ecphrasis, The Dark Lantern, a scythe which may or may not have been the scythe to the Lantern, that eye Claire shoved into her own head, and a whole bunch of random cool magic items. Claire was CFO so I don't have a full listing, plus she stole most of them at the beginning of Season Nine and only returned the lantern in Season 10 under divine orders. *We haven't been to Ravinia. Dread Pirate Lucy said he did, and that that's where he got the Fate that he whoops! sold to Baudin, but there was recently a Fate stored under Point North according to Anahita, so we think that's probably where it actually came from. But he did say he had one hell of a story to tell Ethan, so maybe he did get there and someone else took the Fate from Point North. (Fauxdin himself attacked the city, but this leaves Fauxdin with one Fate unaccounted for which isn't a fun theory to contemplate. ._.;; ) **We do have a little ziggurat which represents something from Ravinia. It showed up when meditating on Ravinia. **Ravinia Glorios -> Gloriosa Family. This has been confirmed to be a valid connection (by Ganth and directly by the DM), and Ganth agreed that "they are Ravinian", but whether this means they're actually descended from Harmonians, they're people who found the lost city and took over stuff from there, or they've just co-opted the name and identity isn't clear. *On the page for The Mother Brain, it lists "New Discordians" as her allies and "New Harmonians" as her enemies, though Xenteroth is her enemy. We have yet to see people explicitly claiming membership in these groups, but since the DM put them there I am assuming this is teaser information meant to be factored into theories and such. (tbc) ways to get stronger Whatever we do, we're not beating the Gloriosas like this. At the party's current power level it's actually most prudent for Ashra to advise we minimize engagements with the enemy, and that is damn boring, so let's try to get ourselves a fighting chance. I don't want to send us off to die, but nor do I want to spend the next seasons running away from everything while everyone laughs at us for not running off to die horribly and expensively. Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) character advancement We're not supposed to hit epic (until, I assume, we're all sitting pretty at level 19.99, at which point we take the leap), so Leilah pretty much can't be leveled and Ashra only has one level left in the nearish future. I get some good stuff (most of my numbers advance, I get a couple more uses on some of my timewalker powers and another ML) but unless getting manifesting advancement means learning new powers or swapping out all my unused powers to take dispel psionics ten times what do you mean that doesn't do anything swapping out some stuff, the next few levels would probably better go to the more recent additions to the party. Party tradition prefers New Party anyway. What do other people get? Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) sweet sweet candy So we need a lot more money. Eon WBL isn't going to get us where we need to be if we're using stuff to make up the gap. We need to come up with an actual in-game way of plausibly getting shit-tons of money, rather than trying to rely on selling standard loot drops from plot battles. Long-term stuff is obviously out because, hey, end of the world, so we're not going to get there by slow investments. Even most of Tanaki's Wall isn't going to get us enough money for effort. What's happening to the Gloriosas' family assets? Can they be seized? Can any of that stuff make its way to us? Telling the Inquisitors that Xenteroth is grabbing them out of the Nightshade for shits and giggles isn't going to make the Inquisition stop derping, but might it make them give us money? Can we plausibly fight ?? Hiss (with minimal thralls) to get some of his massive treasure hoard? We didn't want to fight him so that we can keep shopping with him, but if he's really Scarlet Brotherhood and opposed to us, then that option's already gone. There's always the Goneril option but that gives us more ties to him, I don't trust Ganth as far as his double's electrum backlash blast can throw me with all my resist up, and I don't think he'll give us as much as we really need. There was some talk of Icania getting his parents' assets because of their actions against the People. That could help. Other ideas? Really fast Ponzi schemes? I'm lawful, but I ain't good. Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) We need a better ship. It can be the ship we currently own, but: we need a better ship. These are the obvious options I see: *Make the Thought a proper stealth ship. **Leilah's idea of Mirage Arcana was actually really good. Add to that a chained invisibility using the rod whenever we're going into a tactical situation (since we won't want to be in the Mansion), and I believe we'd have something completely invisible to the naked eye. **Look for mundane solutions vs. True Seeing. Camoflage? I'm interested in what would happen if we managed to get a mirrored surface on the outside of the ship. Flashy enough for Avi, and ... weird looking? I'll leave the mundane stuff to people who know about IRL planes and military toys. Proper True Seeing has a range that's well short of airship range, so technically a magical stealth ship should work ... but I don't trust our enemies not to come up with a special rangeless version. Or maybe they all have Mirrors. The Hall of Many Things is now Basic Nyasan Training, idk. Or they just get really good at spotting shadows. Point is we need mundane stealth too. **I liked the idea that gave us hagfish slime, though not at the same time as we're trying to be invisible. **Can we get a rod of extend specifically so that Faust can do illusory ships more than one step away from the Thought? The rod would be explicitly for that purpose so it could have other functionality stripped out to make it affordable/allowed in the game/work at the appropriate range. *Get the JK3 back, make it into a proper battleship. I think OtherUs are keeping it until and unless Sweet Lady Plot reunites us, so I'm dismissing this as implausible. Plus, while we sunk a good bit of cash into the JK3 and I was quite fond of it, it isn't particularly special AFAIK. Just a nice battle airship. *Get a spelljammer. Advantage: SPACE. From the descriptions they're giant, too, which could be good for ... stuff. I don't know their battle capabilities. If they're good in a fight we could have the Thought for stealth missions (otherwise to be used as Avi's pleasureboat) and the spelljammer for the rest of the time. Ashra wants a Nauteloid but we saw a ship called the Nauteloid, the only spelljammers we've seen were Neogi models, so that's what I'm assuming is on the market. I think we saw one for sale once and then we got the Thought instead? Anyway, they come off like they're a level above normal ships, but if they turn out to kinda suck then fuck this option too. Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) Leilah's ring is actually a Ring of Counterspells (4k SRD). A Ring of Greater Counterspells (16k MIC), which costs significantly more, would have been able to counter the Disjunction using its second ability (1/day while full immediate action counterspell). One equipped to me would have had an even chance of dispelling that Disjunction; on Leilah the chance would've been significantly higher. I think one of the party's casters should get the greater version. (Anyone can get a caster to load GDispel into a RoC, but you have to be a caster to use the immediate counterspell.) Leilah's is welded to her finger, but maybe we can get someone to improve it for the difference in costs? Miracle? I'm not sure. It's the best way I've found to deal with our opponents' new nuclear option. (I can ready to Time Hop myself if someone casts Disjunction, but that can't help anyone else, and it takes my action.) Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) tricks By tricks I mean using the powers and abilities we have (or can get) better together. Most of the stuff in this category historically hasn't gone over well with the DM, so I don't have much in this department. Awesome one-off stuff like Cicero's avalanche usually gets through, but it's rare, by necessity situational, and can't be planned in advance. I consider this one of the main ways to get stronger so I put it in for completion, but it's the one I least expect to be able to use. That said it also involves awesome things and fire so if anyone else has ideas... Chimegumi 09:08, May 20, 2012 (UTC) *As written, by using my timewalker powers in the right sequence, once per encounter I can move 350 feet in a straight line in one round (taking no other action) without any buffs (expeditious retreat &c) from the party. Pales against my DDoor range, but pretty nifty in no-teleport zones. **base speed 35 (30 natural +5 boots); greater haste up (doubles speed -> speed 70). **At the beginning of the relevant round, full move action run = 70 x3 -> 210 ft. **Free action use timewalker ability zoetrope, which simply says "may take an extra move/move-equivalent x times per round", no casting time -> 1 free move action -> + 70 ft (I'm assuming the run multiplier no longer applies after the full move, for convenience's sake). Total so far 280 ft. **Swift action manifest hustle (grants an extra move action, casting time swift) -> another 70 ft, total 350 ft. ***as written this works, but I'll probably be banned from taking three move actions in one round, so I'll probably only get up to 280. Or else I'll not be allowed to do anything but run, including manifesting swift powers. Or something. But hey, pretty nifty if we have another Giant Dungeon like in Eldergrin. Chimegumi 19:52, May 20, 2012 (UTC) Kanye's thoughts on these shenanigans What kanye can do is still being fleshed out so I can't guarantee any of this but here goes; First of all Kanye was designed and built specifically to try and help streamline the party's resources. Kanye can upgrade or repurpose your magic items and convert them without loss. This is something that we need to take advantage of more, and I'd really like to try and get in on the (re)design of any new or semi new ship. He can also do a lot of stuff that would normally be prohibitively time consuming very efficently, such as forge enormous amounts of weapons or armor (or ship parts!!). If you want my opinion I say we should call in a favour or two and make a battleship out of somthing other than balsa wood. (Somewhere I have the costs for mythril by pound and I can get rough calculations for volume and stuff like that) >>IMPORTANT: Rather than having Avi sit in his over9000 pound solid gold fucking bedroom that takes up the entire second deck of the ship, get kanye to cast permancy (or pay someone else to) on a magic mansion with even nicer condittions. There we go huge weight gone and massive space cleared up. I recomend either: * Secondary boosters for extra speed and turbo * Ashra's spelljammer idea. I like stealing one * Some form of magical protection magic *Have kanye build some kind of superweapon. Possibly a ground targeting device and set us up like an ultralight bomber? : Some food for thought : We are entirely dependant on magic, which coupled with our difficulties with SR lead to the majority of our combat problems. Howver EonRPG has hinted heavily and often that the enemy's major combat abilities also stem from similar buffs and magic effects. I really like the spelljammer idea but I also think that more offensive dispells would be a great idea. It'll be another several levels before kanye gets 9ths, but if faust can prepare a disjunction we might end up fighting fire with fire. : I really think we should find a way to sieze some if not all of my parents assets, if we talk to his ganthness I think he'd be happy to send us along with a comissioner on a small necro themed dungeon crawl where the reward is an enormous amount of money and some really good items. Or possibly he already has and it's been redistributed to the people but worth a shot since it's rightfully mine on several levels. : The nesferati stuff is weird. Mega weird, ''not in the oh this is homebrew kind of weird, in the what the I dont even kind of weird. I really am starting to think trap / sideshow might be going on here, if not they need to have some kind of interesting or obscure weakness that we can find through judicious plot device application. : .I'll keep this section updated as I think of things but I'm going to be a bit busy as I'm working full time now and I intend to publish at least one of my research projects before I get back for the fall.ACairnInvalid 10:07, May 20, 2012 (UTC) Ohai :D If we can actually get the Kanye as quick item machine mechanic up and running then ''umph. I've been thinking I need to ditch most of Ashra's random items; they look useful but at this level We Have A Spell For That. If Kanye can eat them more efficiently than I can sell them, then I'm definitely interested in that. Especially if Kanye is allowed to build manifester buff items; after getting someone a Ring of Greater Counterspells and, if permitted, getting myself the highest fortification possible on a buckler (then casting force screen and using that as my shield AC bonus; I'm pretty sure that's how the rules work by SRD but it could be banned anyway) ... I run out of things that help Ashra because most of them are manifester buff items. Officially those are super hard to find, but I think that's just because manifesters are so rare no one bothers with making them; since Kanye knows Ashra, maybe they'd be unlocked for him. Disjunction is on Nerdin's spell list but I don't know if he has access to 9ths yet. I know Leilah does, but I don't know if it's on her list. Don't know about Faust, Mr. R isn't reliably in combat so I'm not keen on relying on his list. No promises re. Ashra ever casting anything he doesn't already know, since what I have access to is kinda convoluted and I don't have 8ths when my official ML says I should. I'm hoping to get dispel psionics but that's just a greater dispel magic with an augment instead of a caster level. There was that chained dispel Leilah mentioned -- I agree we don't want it in Eon, but we don't seem to have that option any more, only the option to delay stuff until the DM brings it in on our unsuspecting heads. So we should look for that too. I almost wonder if the nesferati are fake demons? Like, actually made by devils or angels? They act more like devils with the bargains and shit, and the Celestial name makes me wonder... Good luck with your research! That sounds awesome. Also I just figured out your name. >.<;; Chimegumi 19:57, May 20, 2012 (UTC) I might not be able to make psionic enhancement things, but I might be able to find somthing clever that'd assist you in some other way. I'll put a couple neurons in the back of my head on it and see if they come up with anyhting that isn't super janky, I might be bale to fortify somthing else to avoid selective buff choice, but the buckler thing sound reasonably legit. At the moment my combat roles are super sketchy so all I can really promise is my own brand of clever shit, eating magic things, and occasional really high craft checks. ACairnInvalid 05:52, May 21, 2012 (UTC)